Expectation of man and a women in a relationship – Kovalan and Madhavi from Silapadikaram


Probably the most popular belief might be that Kovalan went behind Madahavi and spent all money for her and when Kovalan burnt all the money he had , Madhavi broke up with him. But that’s not how things happen in Illango’s master epic. Kovalan goes behind Madhavi and spends all his wealth for her and expect sexual union and physical pleasure from her when ever he visits her. Madhavi wants a emotional bondage and just not physical pleasure from Kovalan. Kovalan gets frustrated with Madhavi after some time because Madhavi expects love but all Kovalan wanted was making love. Kovalan breaks off from Madhavi after a period of time when Madhavi doesn’t give herself in for a sexual union whenever he expected. 

In Canto 7  Kaanalvari of Puhar Kandam, Illango brings the tension between Madhavi and Kovalan. Madhavi and Kovalan sit in the shores of the beach and sing songs. Kovalan to press his sexual urge, sings lusty sailor songs which are vulgar, whereas Madhavi sings songs of hapless girls who long for love. 

I have selected two songs from this chapter to highlight this tension. One poem sung by Kovalan and other by Madhavi.

கரிய மலர் நெடுங் கண் காரிகைமுன் கடல்-தெய்வம்

                        காட்டி காட்டி,

அரிய சூள் பொய்த்தார் அறன் இலர் என்று, ஏழையம் யாங்கு

                        அறிகோம், ஐய?

விரி கதிர் வெண் மதியும் மீன் கணமும் ஆம் என்றே,

                        விளங்கும் வௌ஢ளைப்

புரி வளையும் முத்தும் கண்டு-ஆம்பல் பொதி அவிழ்க்கும் 

                         புகாரே, எம் ஊர்.

Good day, my lord!

How can we,small people,understand

why some unscrupulous gentlemen

so often lead our mistresses,

whose eyes are like dark flowers,

to the altar of the sea god, there

to lavish pledges never kept?

We’re from Puhar, where water lilies smile,

and open when you show them pearls,

or even bracelets of cheap nacre, which

they surely take to be the Moon

or some star pouring milky rays.

காதலர் ஆகி, கழிக் கானல், கையுறை கொண்டு,

                        எம் பின் வந்தார்

ஏதிலர்-தாம் ஆகி, யாம் இரப்ப, நிற்பதை யாங்கு

                        அறிகோம், ஐய?

மாதரார் கண்ணும், மதி நிழல் நீர் இணை கொண்டு

                        மலர்ந்த நீலப்

போதும், அறியாது-வண்டு ஊசலாடும்

                       புகாரே, எம் ஊர்.

How can we know,my lord, who are

the men who follow us along the strand?

Their hands are heavy with their presents,

but they prove to be odd foreigners who

expect us to pay dearly for their gifts.

We’re from Puhar where demented bees mistake

the blue eyes of its girls for lotus blossoms

gazing along the moonlight’s path.

மோது முது திரையான் மொத்துண்டு, போந்து அசைந்த

                        முரல் வாய்ச் சங்கம்

மாதர் வரி மணல்மேல் வண்டல் உழுது அழிப்ப,

                        மாழ்கி, ஐய!

கோதை பரிந்து அசைய, மெல் விரலால் கொண்டு ஓச்சும்

                        குவளை மாலைப்

போது சிறங்கணிப்ப, போவார் கண் போகாப்

                         புகாரே, எம் ஊர்.

We’re from Puhar where conchs from the sea,

bruised by the shameless waves,

are thrown upon the beach and crash

upon sand castles that our girls have built.

The Flowers fall out of their undone hair.

Angry, they tear the lilies from their wreaths

to beat the shells. And passers- by

at sight of all these flowers, take them for

alluring glances from unnumbered eyes.

Poet: Illango

Translated by Alian Danileou

This poem is sung by Kovalan in praise of Puhar. If you note the lines of poem , its about how gullible the girls of Puhar are. How easily they are cheated by their lovers. The first few lines tell about how men make so many promises to make love to the girl and then they run away.  The poem also indicates the girls easily get fooled by the gifts given by the men and give themselves in for sexual union. The poem focuses more on the mistakes made by the gals by being naive and hence giving themselves to the men who want to have sexual union and run away.

தீம்-கதிர் வாள் முகத்தாள் செவ் வாய் மணி முறுவல்

                        ஒவ்வாவேனும்,

‘வாங்கும் நீர், முத்து ‘, முத்து ஒ என்று, வைகலும், மால்-மகன் போல்

                        வருதிர், ஐய!

வீங்கு ஓதம் தந்து, விளங்கு ஒளிய வெண் முத்தம்;

                        விரை சூழ் கானல்

பூங் கோதை கொண்டு; விலைஞர் போல் மீளும்

                        புகாரே, எம் ஊர்.

Sir! Like the god of Love you come

and try each day to give us pearls.

Your pearls have not the brightness

of our dear lady’s spotless teeth

set between coral lips in her moon – white face.

We’re from Puhar where an ambitious sea

barters its brilliant pearls against our wreaths.

“தோழியிற் கூட்டம் கூடி, பின்பு வந்து வரைவல்

என்ற தலைவனுக்குத் தோழி கூறுதல்”

மறையின் மணந்தாரை வன் பரதர் பாக்கத்து

                        மடவார் செங் கை

இறை வளைகள் தூற்றுவதை ஏழையம் எங்ஙனம்-யாங்கு

                        அறிகோம்? ஐய!

நிறை மதியும் மீனும் என, அன்னம் நீள் புன்னை

                        அரும்பிப் பூத்த

பொறை மலி பூங் கொம்பு ஏற, வண்டு ஆம்பல் ஊதும்

                        புகாரே, எம் ஊர்.

Gold bracelets on the shapely arms

of sturdy daughters of our fisher folk

show they are married, but in secret.

Naive, we fail to understand.

We’re from Puhar, where water lilies

hiding the bustling bees within their hearts,

open their petals when they see a swan,

perched on a blossoming punnai tree,

thinking it is the moon among the stars.

உண்டாரை வெல் நறா ஊண் ஒளியாப் பாக்கத்துள்,

                        உறை ஒன்று இன்றித்

தண்டா நோய் மாதர் தலைத் தருதி என்பது யாங்கு

                        அறிகோம்? ஐய!

வண்டால் திரை அழிப்ப, கையான் மணல் முகந்து,

                        மதிமேல் நீண்ட,

புண் தோய் வேல் நீர் மல்க, மாதர் கடல் தூர்க்கும்

                        புகாரே, எம் ஊர்.

In this our country, where the good wine

makes him who drinks it so drunk

he cannot hide his drunkenness,

how can we know why there’s no remedy 

for that queer enlarging malady you cause our girls.

We’re from Puhar, where a male sea rapes

the sandy castles that we girls construct,

and eyes,as sharp as spears, on full- moon faces,

shed bitterest regrets too tardy tears.

We take up sand by handfuls, throwing it

against the impudent waves,trying to fill the sea.

Poet: Illango

Translated by Alian Danileou

This poem is sung by Madhavi. It has nearly the same lines used by Kovalan but has very new meaning to it. Unlike the first poem this poem tells the  heart of a women in search of true love. The poem starts with same motif of men giving girls pearls , but here the heroine doesn’t value the gifts. The heroine or the young girls collect gift not because of what is being gifted, its rather because of who is gifting it. A girl gets a gift of pearl only from person she thinks it is apt.She lives in port where getting a pearl isn’t the biggest gift(Since their sea is abundant with pearls) so the girl gets the gift just because she loves the person who gives the gift and not because its a valuable gift.

The second stanza also serves as a reply to Kovalan’s lyrics. Kovalan sings that women are sort of greedy and get the gifts first and they are worried later for the price they have to pay for the gift. Madhavi sings that women when women get gift from a man, it means she is married to the man in her heart and she agrees for sexual union not for the gift but for the man whom she has considered her husband in her heart.Madhavi also gives beautiful explanation that women open up and give theirself to sexual union since they feel they have found their love of their life. The girl considers the man to be like a moon who brightens the dark night. But unfortunately they get fooled by swans who are as white as the moon but would fly away. The lines where Madhavi says’ The waterlilies which are capable hiding the bees in their heart’ indicate the typical psychology of a girl, who is capable of hiding all her feelings yet she gives herself to a man since she thinks he is like a moon in sky.

Another beutiful line from Madhavi is when she explains that when people drink every one knows that person is drunk meaning they know what they know the consequences of drinking, whereas women when they get into love dont know the pain of the love sickness. She ends with a befitting reply to Kovalan’s lines. Kovalan implies that young gals are stupid enough to build sand castles near the sea and get angry when waves destroy it. Madhavi sings that the young gals when they see their sand castle getting destroyed by the waves it is like their dreams getting destroyed. More than getting mad they have an unbearable disappointment which they let it down as painful tears. Without knowing what do when all their dreams have gone like a vapour , they just get mad and throw sand at the vast sea. Even today we hear dialogue likes ‘ un thalaiyila neeye manna vari potukitta’ in movies when typically parents find the girl has lost her virginity to a man.

Illango has brought out the difference in thought process of Kovalan and Madhavi through a series of poems. I wished I could post all the poems and contrast them but since this is my first attempt , I decided to stop with one set of poems.

Please post your comments on this attempt.
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10 thoughts on “Expectation of man and a women in a relationship – Kovalan and Madhavi from Silapadikaram

Add yours

  1. Wow – what a beauty. It really transports you back in time and into a women’s heart.(Something which not many can succeed)

    But, it brings out the goodness in Madhavi. I am sure you will bring out more about Madhavi Vs Kannagi shortly.

    splendid work vairam.

    rgds
    vj

  2. வீங்கு ஓதம் தந்து, விளங்கு ஔதய வெண் முத்தம்;

    உண்டாரை வெல் நறா ஊண் ஔதயாப் பாக்கத்துள்,

    பிழை திருத்தபப்டவேண்டும்

  3. I couldnt read the poems in tamizh.But I really liked the interpretations and I m pretty sure the tamizh poetry would surpass the english translation in beauty and meaning.

  4. Vairam, I had always thought of Madhavi as a ‘villi’ of sorts, this is very enlightening, to know the story from her view point and appreciate what she went through!! Thanks.

  5. Very beautiful. It has been my long term desire to learn Tamizh and understand the nuances of its literature. It is awesome work that you are doing on this blog. Thanks much! 🙂

  6. some thoughts and views ———

    Kannagi’s anklet was filled of diamonds and queen anklet was of pearls and in look were similar .
    why the in story why ankets were compared .
    compare shows in , diamonds and pearls , the kannagi would had been the very elder to the queen .
    some mishappenings would had been taken in very past and the stories would had been going on birth by birth..

    realy how many kannagi stories would had been created , how many girls would had made kannagi ,
    how many boys and small, gods , devatas would had been made to run the story -would had made culprits and victims)

    was the kannagi story was pre planned the indran court scene from the tamil movie agaytiar .( because of this writing how many lifes would be spoiled )
    ——————————————————-
    as agaytiar curses to jai indra /

    ——————————————————–
    What was cause behind every happening , why kovalan only became culprit or victim ,like kovalan and kanagi , how many lifes are spoiled are being spoiled from the very ancient times ( no one is blamed , blamed is the system of karmas ). what would had been the cause behind kannagi and kovalan story as if shown in the agaytiar movie agaytiar curses jaindran , and urvashi to born in the city of poompuhar .were jai indran with urvashi affairs wrong . who was jai indran , and who was urvashi .

    person the indra was accused by the great gods , the link given below

    http://www.speakingtree.in/public/spiritual-blogs/ seekers/faith-and-rituals/
    bgupta#commentlist

    was jaiindra , his real son . in agaytiar movie agaytiar says to jai indra , jaiindra you born to indra and you have not understand me .

    in dasavataram old movie,durvasa rishi curses to indra story might had link ,

    poompuhar ‘s story and history is match able to the story shown in agaythyiar movie — as agaythiar curses —
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh4_NTH_qW0&featur e=related

    crores and crores of peoples are being killed ,destryoed in such a way no one can find out , and given different shapes and made to bad brains and minds ,
    genetical deshaped and disorded to lusty and bad brains and bad minds .
    are made from single soul to multy humans souls to suffer and painful
    creatures to never become humans and buried alive under earth and even
    killed into stomaches and made to toilets and throughn into hells like
    toilets—

    Kannagi story was repeated again in the ambala under earth , this time also great cruilities happend on kannagi ,

    if i am not wrong , kannagi , (tamil) is the daughter or sister of great and very ancient god can be said southern god . .

    why the cruilities and mishappenings were and are happening again and again , what is the wrong with peoples and peoples went of wrong wisdom and misbehavings and bad acts ..
    and peoples are beaten very badly and broken and even buried alive by the great gods and goddesses and great humans gods like murgan bhiraspaty ,bharama ,
    dakshina moorty , narayanan , and many power full and great gods ..

    ———————————————————————–

    Draupady , ganga ,kannagi , bhooma devi , saraswaties . sitas , and other devies and other good peoples were always and again and again insulted and were victim of cruielties and crimes .and girls like taraka(tataka) and her mother and her souls were accused and culprits and of cruilities ,why could not become good humans and peoples like others . why peoples became so bad and wrong even girl and ladies insulted ladies ,

    Was kunti and kunti’s humans and other souls were real cuilprits , in the 2012 ,13 ,2014 were beaten and killed very badlly by the gods like bharama , guru bhiraspati ,dakshina moorti , two goddess might be ganga and draupadi and other gods like may be ram ,krishna , and others .of many mahabharata story of one kunty was mother of human of taraka or taraka sister .according to one story draupadi was boon/cursed by shiva of five husdands . kunti and kunti’s humans and other souls would had been culprits or guilty of revenges .

    Were putana , who tried to kill krishna by making drink milk and other women ,like holika ,who tried to burn krishna and other womens and others were culprits or were became the cuplprits of wrong and bad traditions or bad karmas of karmas or some other traditions

    Why krishna ,rama ,shiva and others mahans elder peoples were good peoples and indras and others peoples were bad
    crores and crores have been destroyed and are being buried alive under earths , throughwn into hells and made landless ,
    why others peoles could not become good humans and good peoples

    who were those peoples , which has been and being killed ,destroyieded ,
    whose generations were , why were bad peoples , were really bad , why
    could not became good peoples ,

    Were rama and ravana were
    enemy ? , if i am not wrong rama shakti and murgan and veerbhadra are
    same avatars .(savarupnaga , ravana sister and sita might had been the close
    relative) .
    which peoples would had some wrong and intercaste marrages . intercaste marrages would had been the cause of quarrels there would had been great conspirancies to kill the peoples. which were from the westren and south westron parts of himayalas .in many stories of dakasa prajapati story also many wrong and multy wifes and mishappenigs happened . ( peoples which had to make lifes good and better , used the criminals ,enemities and wrong ideas and methods for spoiling and destroying the lifes )

    Culprits and cruel peoples , who had done cruelities
    on brahma and saraswati , and ganga and sita , ahiyilia , draupdi and on
    many goddesses and gods ,and on good peoples ,

    crores and crores of peoples are being killed ,destryoed in such a way no one can find out , and given different shapes and made to bad brains and minds ,
    genetical deshaped and disorded to lusty and bad brains and bad minds .
    are made from single soul to multy humans souls to suffer and painful
    creatures to never become humans and buried alive under earth and even
    killed into stomaches and made to toilets and throughn into hells like
    toilets
    cause —-Culprits and cruel peoples , who had done cruelities
    on brahma and saraswati , and ganga and sita , ahiyilia , draupdi and on
    many goddesses and gods ,and on good peoples ,

    {my views , which i found some what truth )my views may or may not be acceptable truth.}

    Many ramayanas are there , like valmiki ,vashist ,kamb, ramanujan ,ramayanaa are few of many other versons of ramayana ,
    what is the meaning of ramayana found ,– ramayana = ram +ayan ( ayan meaning came ) ,

    according
    to some stories ahyilyia was cursed by gotham rishi , Ahalya was
    converted to stone ,As for Ahalya, Gautama granted her the boon that she
    would be brought back to human form by the touch of the feet of Lord
    Rama .
    so rama avatar would had been made (incarnated) ,thus how many ramas would had been created ,

    would gotham rishi would be knowing about rama avatar ?

    like
    ramayana so many ahilya versons are there ,( like in a verson , ganga
    tells to gautam , it is mid night not the bath time go to home and see
    some thing would have been wrong ) .

    how many Ahilyas storeies
    would had been made and how many gautams would had been made and how
    many ahilyas lifes would had been spoiled ,how many indras would had
    been made and how many girls/boys souls would had been made to sit in
    hen or cock and make sound (cock crow) .thus how many would had been
    made culprits ,sinners ,bad brains ,bad habituals of bad acts and bad
    karma .
    and those cuilprits , sinners are/would had been made to quarrel and killed in the wars of ramanyana .?

    mahabharta
    , would had took placed for the revenges and the cruelties happened on
    ladies ( like savarupnakha ,sita ) . to show the cruelities ,gamblings
    were played and sarees were made to removed

    like ramayana vishvamitra story would have many versons and vishvamitras

    mahabharata
    would had been happened for revenges of ramayana and ramayana would had
    been happened for ahiylia and what would be reason behind ahiliyia
    insult was conspirancies or any ones evil idea .

    really how many
    would had been real culptits and how many would had been created and how
    many would had been victims of vengences and eneyminities and how many
    peoples souls would had been killed

    killed peoples would had been
    given births to different parents , differnt mothers ,different fathers
    , and thus differnt marrages would had taken places in past birth some
    ones mothers would had been wife of some another person .and some wrong
    and illigal methods and would had been used like rapes for the birth and
    for enemities and revenges .
    thus quarrels would had been on increasing ,and peoples and souls became culprits and victims .
    according
    to one of the satguru video in the past arround 18 millions years 1.8
    crores years ago and one of the papa ji ( h.l. punja ) video , arround
    80 millilons years ,8 crores years ago some incarnations had took placed
    and some wrong things and wrong marrages and wrong interchanged
    childrens were given births by the other not by their husbands .
    like this millions and millions peoples are accused .

    ( peoples which had to make lifes good and better , used the criminals
    ,and wrong ideas and methods for spoiling and destroying the lifes )

    More than 99 % of peoples, gods ,souls had been inocents ,had not been
    victims . if polatictics , conspirancies , crimanilites ,some wrong
    traditions and some wrong rules of few from the ancient times would had
    not been made.

    why the wrong and mishappenings happened and
    happenings from the very ancient times , why peoples went wrong for
    wrong marrages wrong acts
    Why the gods , devatas , peoples and
    humans became wrong of bad wisdoms and wrong acts and bad karmas ,crores
    and crores of peoples ,were all the peoples were bad .why became bad
    instead of becoming good humans and peoples

    for examples of very few , link given below–copy & paste
    1/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2doBdnY8H8E

    2/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OByGdKO4814Why
    and pearls , the kannagi would had been the very elder to the queen .
    some mishappenings would had been taken in very past and the stories would had been going on birth by birth..

    realy how many kannagi stories would had been created , how many girls would had made kannagi ,
    how many boys and small, gods , devatas would had been made to run the story -would had made culprits and victims)

    was the kannagi story was pre planned .( because of this writing how many lifes would be spoiled )
    ——————————————————-
    as agaytiar curses to jai indra /

    ——————————————————–
    What was cause behind every happening , why kovalan only became culprit or victim ,like kovalan and kanagi , how many lifes are spoiled are being spoiled from the very ancient times ( no one is blamed , blamed is the system of karmas ). what would had been the cause behind kannagi and kovalan story as if shown in the agaytiar movie agaytiar curses jaindran , and urvashi to born in the city of poompuhar .were jai indran with urvashi affairs wrong . who was jai indran , and who was urvashi .

    person the indra was accused by the great gods , the link given below

    http://www.speakingtree.in/public/spiritual-blogs/ seekers/faith-and-rituals/
    bgupta#commentlist

    was jaiindra , his real son . in agaytiar movie agaytiar says to jai indra , jaiindra you born to indra and you have not understand me .

    in dasavataram old movie,durvasa rishi curses to indra story might had link ,

    poompuhar ‘s story and history is match able to the story shown in agaythyiar movie — as agaythiar curses —
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh4_NTH_qW0&featur e=related

    crores and crores of peoples are being killed ,destryoed in such a way no one can find out , and given different shapes and made to bad brains and minds ,
    genetical deshaped and disorded to lusty and bad brains and bad minds .
    are made from single soul to multy humans souls to suffer and painful
    creatures to never become humans and buried alive under earth and even
    killed into stomaches and made to toilets and throughn into hells like
    toilets—

    Kannagi story was repeated again in the ambala under earth , this time also great cruilities happend on kannagi ,

    if i am not wrong , kannagi , (tamil) is the daughter or sister of great and very ancient god can be said southern god . .

    why the cruilities and mishappenings were and are happening again and again , what is the wrong with peoples and peoples went of wrong wisdom and misbehavings and bad acts ..
    and peoples are beaten very badly and broken and even buried alive by the great gods and goddesses and great humans gods like murgan bhiraspaty ,bharama ,
    dakshina moorty , narayanan , and many power full and great gods ..

    ———————————————————————–

    Draupady , ganga ,kannagi , bhooma devi , saraswaties . sitas , and other devies and other good peoples were always and again and again insulted and were victim of cruielties and crimes .and girls like taraka(tataka) and her mother and her souls were accused and culprits and of cruilities ,why could not become good humans and peoples like others . why peoples became so bad and wrong even girl and ladies insulted ladies ,

    Was kunti and kunti’s humans and other souls were real cuilprits , in the 2012 ,13 ,2014 were beaten and killed very badlly by the gods like bharama , guru bhiraspati ,dakshina moorti , two goddess might be ganga and draupadi and other gods like may be ram ,krishna , and others .of many mahabharata story of one kunty was mother of human of taraka or taraka sister .according to one story draupadi was boon/cursed by shiva of five husdands . kunti and kunti’s humans and other souls would had been culprits or guilty of revenges .

    Were putana , who tried to kill krishna by making drink milk and other women ,like holika ,who tried to burn krishna and other womens and others were culprits or were became the cuplprits of wrong and bad traditions or bad karmas of karmas or some other traditions

    Why krishna ,rama ,shiva and others mahans elder peoples were good peoples and indras and others peoples were bad
    crores and crores have been destroyed and are being buried alive under earths , throughwn into hells and made landless ,
    why others peoles could not become good humans and good peoples

    who were those peoples , which has been and being killed ,destroyieded ,
    whose generations were , why were bad peoples , were really bad , why
    could not became good peoples ,

    Were rama and ravana were
    enemy ? , if i am not wrong rama shakti and murgan and veerbhadra are
    same avatars .(savarupnaga , ravana sister and sita might had been the close
    relative) .
    which peoples would had some wrong and intercaste marrages . intercaste marrages would had been the cause of quarrels there would had been great conspirancies to kill the peoples. which were from the westren and south westron parts of himayalas .in many stories of dakasa prajapati story also many wrong and multy wifes and mishappenigs happened . ( peoples which had to make lifes good and better , used the criminals ,enemities and wrong ideas and methods for spoiling and destroying the lifes )

    Culprits and cruel peoples , who had done cruelities
    on brahma and saraswati , and ganga and sita , ahiyilia , draupdi and on
    many goddesses and gods ,and on good peoples ,

    crores and crores of peoples are being killed ,destryoed in such a way no one can find out , and given different shapes and made to bad brains and minds ,
    genetical deshaped and disorded to lusty and bad brains and bad minds .
    are made from single soul to multy humans souls to suffer and painful
    creatures to never become humans and buried alive under earth and even
    killed into stomaches and made to toilets and throughn into hells like
    toilets
    cause —-Culprits and cruel peoples , who had done cruelities
    on brahma and saraswati , and ganga and sita , ahiyilia , draupdi and on
    many goddesses and gods ,and on good peoples ,

    {my views , which i found some what truth )my views may or may not be acceptable truth.}

    Many ramayanas are there , like valmiki ,vashist ,kamb, ramanujan ,ramayanaa are few of many other versons of ramayana ,
    what is the meaning of ramayana found ,– ramayana = ram +ayan ( ayan meaning came ) ,

    according
    to some stories ahyilyia was cursed by gotham rishi , Ahalya was
    converted to stone ,As for Ahalya, Gautama granted her the boon that she
    would be brought back to human form by the touch of the feet of Lord
    Rama .
    so rama avatar would had been made (incarnated) ,thus how many ramas would had been created ,

    would gotham rishi would be knowing about rama avatar ?

    like
    ramayana so many ahilya versons are there ,( like in a verson , ganga
    tells to gautam , it is mid night not the bath time go to home and see
    some thing would have been wrong ) .

    how many Ahilyas storeies
    would had been made and how many gautams would had been made and how
    many ahilyas lifes would had been spoiled ,how many indras would had
    been made and how many girls/boys souls would had been made to sit in
    hen or cock and make sound (cock crow) .thus how many would had been
    made culprits ,sinners ,bad brains ,bad habituals of bad acts and bad
    karma .
    and those cuilprits , sinners are/would had been made to quarrel and killed in the wars of ramanyana .?

    mahabharta
    , would had took placed for the revenges and the cruelties happened on
    ladies ( like savarupnakha ,sita ) . to show the cruelities ,gamblings
    were played and sarees were made to removed

    like ramayana vishvamitra story would have many versons and vishvamitras

    mahabharata
    would had been happened for revenges of ramayana and ramayana would had
    been happened for ahiylia and what would be reason behind ahiliyia
    insult was conspirancies or any ones evil idea .

    really how many
    would had been real culptits and how many would had been created and how
    many would had been victims of vengences and eneyminities and how many
    peoples souls would had been killed

    killed peoples would had been
    given births to different parents , differnt mothers ,different fathers
    , and thus differnt marrages would had taken places in past birth some
    ones mothers would had been wife of some another person .and some wrong
    and illigal methods and would had been used like rapes for the birth and
    for enemities and revenges .
    thus quarrels would had been on increasing ,and peoples and souls became culprits and victims .
    according
    to one of the satguru video in the past arround 18 millions years 1.8
    crores years ago and one of the papa ji ( h.l. punja ) video , arround
    80 millilons years ,8 crores years ago some incarnations had took placed
    and some wrong things and wrong marrages and wrong interchanged
    childrens were given births by the other not by their husbands .
    like this millions and millions peoples are accused .

    ( peoples which had to make lifes good and better , used the criminals
    ,and wrong ideas and methods for spoiling and destroying the lifes )

    More than 99 % of peoples, gods ,souls had been inocents ,had not been
    victims . if polatictics , conspirancies , crimanilites ,some wrong
    traditions and some wrong rules of few from the ancient times would had
    not been made.

    why the wrong and mishappenings happened and
    happenings from the very ancient times , why peoples went wrong for
    wrong marrages wrong acts
    Why the gods , devatas , peoples and
    humans became wrong of bad wisdoms and wrong acts and bad karmas ,crores
    and crores of peoples ,were all the peoples were bad .why became bad
    instead of becoming good humans and peoples

    for examples of very few , link given below–copy & paste
    1/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2doBdnY8H8E

    2/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OByGdKO4814Why

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